I didn’t know Joe Rogan until the podcast era; I vaguely knew him as a “meh” comedian. But when the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE) began, it was genuinely groundbreaking. It started as an alternative, and I feel like it doesn’t get enough credit for that early vision.
What made it great wasn’t just Rogan talking shit—it was the weird, fascinating guests he found.
The Golden Age: A Video Zine in the Digital Underground
Early JRE was a “video version of a zine.” It had that DIY feel, an unfiltered voice, and a focus on niche, underground topics. It really did feel like Rogan was one of those characters in SLC Punk—a dude who moved between the tribes, befriending the stoners, martial arts nut balls, punk rockers and foot ball players.
Rogan himself had several spheres of expertise. He was a Renaissance man who spoke with the confidence of an older Gen-X-er because he had dedicated decades to his crafts. He was an expert pool player, a black belt in Taekwondo, an established comedian, and one of the first credible MMA announcers. He knew what was going on in the MMA ring, and the underground scenes in LA.
His lane of expertise was akin to the character in the movie Nightcrawler—it was cool, weird, underground stuff, filled with a similar exhilaration or discovering weird stuff. It’s a similar reason to why I explore homeless camps and abandon properties on my adventure bike, or travel countries like Nepal, or Tibet.
The Paul Stamets Example
One of the first episodes I remember seeing, and getting hook on, was the conversation with mycologist Paul Stamets (JRE #1035). I had seen a few clips before that and been kind of turned off by the meat head nature of the podcast, but this one got me. Rogan sat and talked to a guy for three and a half hours about things like the largest single organism in the world—the Armillaria ostoyae fungus—a single biomass spanning miles underground. It was the epitome of genuine, unfiltered discovery, and it was revolutionary for a podcast. There was no agenda, just some weird Readers Digest-like facts about weird phenomenon. It lowered my stress level, and put me in the flow state.
The Decline: From Discovery to Arbitrage
I fell out with Rogan around 2021. The guests weren’t as good, and I realized that the “underground stuff” had been mined and picked over. I also think there’s a bit of the “power corrupts” thing going on. I don’t think Rogan is evil, but when you get that rich and that famous, it’s just harder to relate to normal people. The show started to change when Rogan stopped being able to apply expertise to the discussions with his guests. Things leaned toward politics, and VCs like Chamath Palihapitiya and Marc Andreesen started coming on. These guys always “have an agenda” – full-on sales guys. While they do talk about some interesting things in the VC world, the agenda started degrading the value for me. These guys are in constant search of any kind of information, power or financial arbitrage. They fully understood the power of a “Rogan tap”. Also, I’m from the tech world, so I get enough of this stuff in day-to-day life.
Also, I think the podcast industry matured. There became a well understood market. Twenty years ago, when an author published a new book, they’d do the rounds on the “today shows” and “late shows” and get their message out there. Now, they do it on podcasts. The net got too wide, and the show shifted from discovering talented eccentrics to platforming people who knew going on JRE would essentially “make them famous” and generate profit. The purity of that early, zine-like discovery was gone.
I don’t hate Joe Rogan for this, I don’t think he’s an evil guy. I just think things change and the product is no longer for me.
The Final Straw: I Refuse to Use Spotify
As stupid as it sounds, moving to Spotify was also a major wedge for me too. It kicked off the rift for me. I just don’t like the Spotify interface, I don’t like the advertisements at the beginning. I just refuse to use their software.
I have a paid YouTube account to avoid the constant barrage of ads, and I absolutely fucking hate the Spotify interface and the ads they started to incorporate. When Rogan moved exclusively there, it essentially spelled the end of me listening with any regularity. The content was already less interesting, and the inconvenience of the Spotify platform was the final, unacceptable friction point.
There was less product-market fit with me (the podcast itself), and the delivery of the product was worse (Spotify). Together it really reduced my desire to listen.
Why I Prefer Experiential Authority
Today, I still prefer shows that bring a knowledgeable lens to a conversation. The problem with a lot of polished, contemporary pod-casters—like Steven Bartlett (Diary of a CEO) or Chris Williamson (Modern Wisdom)—is that they’ve literally never done anything else before launching their shows. I’m talking about a fundamental naivety from being young and getting into podcasting before building a robust foundation of life experience.
When a guest knows all kinds of stuff and drops an insight, the host’s lack of experiential authority shows through. We all have some combination of thin knowledge in a large set of topics, as well as deep knowledge in much smaller set of topics. It could have to do with a
I prefer to watch interviews conducted by interviewers with experiential authority in one or more discipline, and an ability to generalize patterns and apply it outside of their areas of expertise. Some examples include:
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Tom Keene (Bloomberg) had an investment business, played ice hockey, released a folk album, enrolled but never finished the London School of Economics, and reported through the 2008 financial crisis. He’s been to Davos and knows the Haut Finance world so deeply that it’s delightful to hear his interviews with people.
- David Rubenstein (Bloomberg) practiced law in New York City, founded Carlyle group, deeply involved in the arts, and the Smithsonian. He’s brilliant, funny, and interviews people wonderfully.
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Shawn Ryan (Shawn Ryan Show), who was a Navy SEAL and CIA operative, an expert in diving, weapons, and operations—he learned real stuff. He also learned how to navigate two different, very mature organizations, with vastly different cultures. Playing in those ponds teaches you something very special.
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Joe Rogan circa 2015, who was an expert pool player, comedian, and martial artist. He could apply his BS sensor to subjects outside of his area of expertise and was genuinely curious.
They bring a different, authentic lens to the conversation. This is the value I want in an “interview product” when I listen. Our lives change as we age, I can certainly attest to the massive change I’ve experienced between 10 and 50 year old. But, Rubenstein and Keene have done it with grace. Joe Rogan had a crescendo around the time I found him in 2017, but I just don’t think he’s been able to navigate the gap that massive success breeds as well as other have.